[Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #F1

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Isabella Wolfy » 16 Jul 2017, 13:32

krpajda wrote:i think making fun of a major religion is perfectly fine, but even if you do not, this is not it.


Thank you for your input, you are saying that making fun of religion, despite muslims getting offended is OK. Clearly you have no interest nor relevance in actually solving this case, beside ranting againts the offended ones. Let the respective r5s of the complained ones deal with the case, so it gets done in a quick and effective manner where both sides are statisfied. I think winston made a good solution to some of the cases.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Eagle » 16 Jul 2017, 14:12

Posting on Spencer's behalf.
Mercenary wrote:
Jarl Corleone wrote:Didn't take any action against racism, at all.


Could you please point out where exacly is something about racism? did he said something that white/black/yellow race is worse then any other? could you please expain this a bit more? and why did you included that here?

Jarl Corleone wrote:If not, the terrorists who call theirselves Muslims (which isn't) making attacks like suicide bombing, cutting other people's head etc. They shout "Allahu akbar". The problem here is they aren't Muslims and giving bad impressions to world


I'm sorry but who are you to decide who is muslim and who is not? If they are claiming that they are muslim and they fight in what they belive who are you to limit them? this statement could be conidered as offenisve towards people who support their case. If I will say now that you are not a muslim would that be fair? Do I have any right to decide about that?

Jarl Corleone wrote:I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.


But why are you trying to limit someone freedome of speech? if you agree that is not a terrorist sentence then what is the problem? you can't forbid saying something, especially if it's not an insult only because you are offended, there will be always some things that will offend others but let's not make it ridiculous.

I can't see where rule #9 was broken here, Ryosuke didn't insult anyone and if someone feels offended it's only his problem. World have many religions and many cultures and there will be always something that will offend one of them.
Should I make PC every time when someone says something like "Jesus Christ, what happend here?" because calling god name without reason is prohibited in christian religion?


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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 14:31

Eagle wrote:Posting on Spencer's behalf.
Mercenary wrote:
Jarl Corleone wrote:Didn't take any action against racism, at all.


Could you please point out where exacly is something about racism? did he said something that white/black/yellow race is worse then any other? could you please expain this a bit more? and why did you included that here?

Jarl Corleone wrote:If not, the terrorists who call theirselves Muslims (which isn't) making attacks like suicide bombing, cutting other people's head etc. They shout "Allahu akbar". The problem here is they aren't Muslims and giving bad impressions to world


I'm sorry but who are you to decide who is muslim and who is not? If they are claiming that they are muslim and they fight in what they belive who are you to limit them? this statement could be conidered as offenisve towards people who support their case. If I will say now that you are not a muslim would that be fair? Do I have any right to decide about that?

Jarl Corleone wrote:I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.


But why are you trying to limit someone freedome of speech? if you agree that is not a terrorist sentence then what is the problem? you can't forbid saying something, especially if it's not an insult only because you are offended, there will be always some things that will offend others but let's not make it ridiculous.

I can't see where rule #9 was broken here, Ryosuke didn't insult anyone and if someone feels offended it's only his problem. World have many religions and many cultures and there will be always something that will offend one of them.
Should I make PC every time when someone says something like "Jesus Christ, what happend here?" because calling god name without reason is prohibited in christian religion?


I can decide who is muslim or not, there are rules and responsibilites in Islam. If you are cutting other people's head, killing tons of innocent people because they are not muslims, you are not a muslim too. If you break a rule in Islam you are not muslim. Thats the way I can call them not Muslims.

Also you are talking about "Jesus Christ" eh? Do other bad people shout it before cutting others head, killing other people, bombing some place? The situation here is not about "Jesus Christ", I am getting offended because I know what people use it for nowadays. Even they call it "Allahu Akbar memes" which a not muslim terrorist shouts Allahu akbar before an explosion or something.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jaffa » 16 Jul 2017, 14:50

So you are offended because you are assuming he used the words "allahu ackbar" in a certain way? Seems like a pretty baseless reason to get offended.

Unfortunately you don't get to choose who follows a certain religion and who doesn't and actually, I'm sure some people might be offended by the fact that you have assumed a position of power and dictated to people who can be a Muslim and who can not. People can get offended by a lot of things, no one directly insulted you and I don't think it's fair for you to continue to accuse Ryosuke of being a racist, when all he did is make one simple joke.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Isabella Wolfy » 16 Jul 2017, 15:05

Reply to Spencer.

Could you please point out where exacly is something about racism? did he said something that white/black/yellow race is worse then any other? could you please expain this a bit more? and why did you included that here?


He used the "famous" allah akbar, which is a holy sentence within prayers of Islam, and used it in such a negative way that it makes people who believe in Islam, degraded in our todays society. Since it is widely used by Terrorist, and Islam, the muslims.. get the blame. When you read news and scroll down to the comment page, you won't see "terrorist did this and that", you will see "It is all because of the muslims and their belief", when you go play a game, E.G: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, people in terrorist side will say "I am muslim, hahaha, allahu akbar!" *bomb explodes*.. do you think that is not degrading their religion?

I'm sorry but who are you to decide who is muslim and who is not? If they are claiming that they are muslim and they fight in what they belive who are you to limit them? this statement could be conidered as offenisve towards people who support their case. If I will say now that you are not a muslim would that be fair? Do I have any right to decide about that?


You are right to some degree, they could probably be muslims, but the fact that those terrorists use Islam as an excuse for terror, actions performed by the terrorists, to kill and torture people.. let me remind you, this is not longer "RLS" we are talking about, but real life where killings actually happend.
In a world where perfectly normal and fine muslims say they do not agree and/or hate the fact that they do these kind of actions. Where muslims who do not act with terror, state that the terrorists are miss interpreting the actually meaning of the koran.

Must I remind, that terrorism is the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. I normal muslim, like Jarl, doesn't go out in an ordinary sunny day and kill people in order to achieve this "calliphate", he has a belief. Why does that belief has to be downgraded simply because some terrorist use the same sentence and try to make Islam look bad?

And regarding "supporting their case", if violence and intimidation is something normal people support, it is no longer a belief.. but a crime, since it is an actual action done by terrorist which causes harm to one or more people and not a belief prayed by a muslim.

But why are you trying to limit someone freedome of speech? if you agree that is not a terrorist sentence then what is the problem? you can't forbid saying something, especially if it's not an insult only because you are offended, there will be always some things that will offend others but let's not make it ridiculous.


Freedom of Speech has it's limits, one of those limits being racism. How would it be if people started to go out in the city and call black people for "N****"? You would (atleast in Norway), get either fined or be put in jail for it. You will probably call it "Taking things out of propotion", but in Jarl and many other muslims eyes, it is equally as bad to put terrorism and Islam in the same cup and you should be ashamed if you think making fun of Islam or any other religion for that sake is fine. You have to realise that some people only have religion left, not everyone like us who play on RLS can chill and write essays, play games or generally live a good life. Sometimes, belief is the only thing a person has left and sometimes you should be very careful about what you say about any religion, or just keep the mouth closed.

Basiclly, what doesn't look offensive for you, what doesn't look insulting to you. Making a joke about an another religion. Can be the biggest insult for those who actually believe in those religion. You can take any person, make a lot of fun about his country/religion, it is probably fun for you.. but in the end, for that other person, it can be his pride, it can be his belief, his culture.. you simple do not insult religions.

You say this whole thing with "Allahu Akbar" is ridicolus, Krpadja says it is just a string of characters without any meaning, but for people who believe in Islam, that is a part of their day, a part of their prayer, a part of their lifes. Respect it and stop trying to change and degrade Islam for it.

I can't see where rule #9 was broken here, Ryosuke didn't insult anyone and if someone feels offended it's only his problem. World have many religions and many cultures and there will be always something that will offend one of them.
Should I make PC every time when someone says something like "Jesus Christ, what happend here?" because calling god name without reason is prohibited in christian religion?


I have already explained as to why #9 is clearly broken here, if you bothered to read the small texts I wrote above. Ryosuke did in fact insult at least two people, considering this player complaint was made and it was reported that 2 people was offended by his statement. Like I said to Krpadja, just because there are many religions and cultures that have things that can offend them, doesn't mean you have to offend them.

I don't know if you are a heavy believer of christianity, but I have a grandmother who visits the church every sunday for 6 hours, and she gets insulted/offended if Jesus was to be used in a negative way. Your example is very very poor, let me make it better.

*Someone chops a head off a guy with an axe and says -This is for Jesus!-"
My Grandmother wouldn't condemn that, because clearly the religion is about spreading peace and love, you like Islam.. the only difference being the way they interpret how peace and love should be spread.


Response to Jaffa

So you are offended because you are assuming he used the words "allahu ackbar" in a certain way? Seems like a pretty baseless reason to get offended.


I fail to see where he "assumed" how he used the words "allahu ackbar" in a certain way. Ryosuke said he will go and do "Allahu akbar" and as jarl said, there is only one way refered to how people can "use" allahu akbar, which is through the internationally known spread use of violence where terrorists use Islam as an excuse (if you bother to read what I wrote, then you would understand, I will quote it here)

If you are cutting other people's head, killing tons of innocent people because they are not muslims


These terrorist, "use" these words by doing things mentioned above by Jarl, that is the only way one can "use" Allahu Akbar, You can Pray, but usage is meant as a negative sense and it is common sense when you read what they wrote.. the fact that you guys keep spamming the "How is it this and that" instead of actually reading what Jarl is trying to explain is for me still a mystery, if you guys don't want to read what he wrote, go ahead and read what I wrote above to spencer.

Unfortunately you don't get to choose who follows a certain religion and who doesn't and actually, I'm sure some people might be offended by the fact that you have assumed a position of power and dictated to people who can be a Muslim and who can not. People can get offended by a lot of things, no one directly insulted you and I don't think it's fair for you to continue to accuse Ryosuke of being a racist, when all he did is make one simple joke.


What has been reported in this complaint, is that Ryosuke has been using phrases which two (and possibly more) has been offended of, and this player complaint was made to make sure this will be avoided in the future. I am sure Ryosuke didn't intend to be an racist and is probably a very nice guy in person, but he came off wrong and he repeated it and people doesn't like it. Jarl and other people now reported this and doesn't want it to be used.

What jarl is trying to say is that terrorists who claim to be muslims, are not appriciated in Islam's society and doesn't want to be associated with it at any cost.. even calling them non-believers of the Islamic religion. If a british person went on a killing spree in an another country, saying "I am british, we hate everyone and want to kill everyone!" does he then represent what the entire nation wants? No, of course not.. most people doesn't want their nationailty or religion to be used in a way that affects their reputation negatively. He made one "simple" joke about a massive religion which he knows can be offensive, and we are asking, not you, not thomas, but cassie to make sure there is a "simple" fix so the community can thrive togheter without saying things which makes other people feel bad.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Isabella Wolfy » 16 Jul 2017, 15:12

I will just quote this by Winston in a seperate post, because he made an easy solution for a hard topic.. there is no need to make something bigger then it already is, it is asked for what exactly winston wrote in his reply, nothing more, we never asked for demotion or even a warn.. more like a "shake hands, talk about this and that to make sure it doesn't happend again" and then all good. Quote down below.

all I will comment on that topic is perhaps giving a talk (not warning) about making a joke about sensitive things such as politics, religion, race, gender, sexual preferences etc should be avoided where possible, or just be somewhat more considerate around others should suffice.

With regards to #13, I can see it's a minor rule break about it, that even experienced players would sometimes make such mistakes let alone the less experienced, so a verbal warning should suffice.

With the #F1 with Shella, perhaps she needs to be talked to about how to interpret Rule #13. While Rule #13 did not explicitly define what kinds of questions may be asked on /n chat, it should be common sense that newbie chat should be used for questions and answers about server functions and things along those lines, rather than general chatter such as "u guyz r leaking like anything..." or "xD".

Finally with #6, while it is customary that players tend to hang out OOCly at the Casino, asking or inviting players to the Casino via OOC means or generally, using OOC chat to invite players to execute an IC action with their character may be seen as promoting metagaming, so I disagree with Cassie's defence.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jaffa » 16 Jul 2017, 15:19

I am getting offended because I know what people use it for nowadays


People, not specifically Ryosuke. You don't know what way he meant it yet Jarl is choosing to be offended anyway.

What has been reported in this complaint, is that Ryosuke has been using phrases which two (and possibly more) has been offended of, and this player complaint was made to make sure this will be avoided in the future. I am sure Ryosuke didn't intend to be an racist and is probably a very nice guy in person, but he came off wrong and he repeated it and people doesn't like it. Jarl and other people now reported this and doesn't want it to be used.


In this case; I also want the words "jesus" and "christ" not used as they can be used in a wrong way and are offensive to me. See how stupid that sounds? Censoring words that might offend a few people for whatever reason is never a good idea, unless you want a dry and boring server where people are scared to say anything at all in case they offend someone.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby krpajda » 16 Jul 2017, 15:23

You can't have it both ways.

Either terrorists are proper muslims, and making fun of terrorists can be generalized (if you are extremely sensitive i guess) into making fun of all muslims everywhere, and any single muslim who hears it or hears it happened will therefore become offended.
Or terrorists are not proper muslims, or even not muslim at all, they just happen to use some words when they commit mass murder as muslims do at other occasions, and the only way a muslim would get offended by a terrorist joke would be because of a misunderstanding when the muslim thinks its in fact a joke about them and not about the terrorists.

RLS is not governed by some sort of religious rule of any kind, that would make it not ok to make fun of an idea just because a particular religion agrees with it. If it were, how far would it go? Would only Islam be off limits? Why give it a preference? Any religion at all? Religion a player is a part of? Would you have to ask everyone online about their faith before any attempts at humor?

I don't see anyone directly insulting, offending, mocking, or otherwise making fun of Jarl's (alleged, anonymous) friend. I believe that should be as far as rule 9 is concerned, because otherwise, we will end up in an endless mess of banned words, phrases and sentiments where no one can have any fun at all, lest someone gets offended.

Now that i got hung up on it, my opinion on the rest of the pc: unless they actually went to the casino purely based on the ooc communication (could have just been coordinating, finding out if anyone else would be interested before asking IC?), it would not necessarily break rule 6. For 13, i guess bruce should not have used it, but ryosuke (for whom it should still be default chat at lvl 11 i think?) simply replied, again, do not see it as a cause for shella to act immediately, fail to do so and be liable for F1.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Isabella Wolfy » 16 Jul 2017, 15:40

Jaffa wrote:
I am getting offended because I know what people use it for nowadays


People, not specifically Ryosuke. You don't know what way he meant it yet Jarl is choosing to be offended anyway.


People, as in the general (including Ryosuke).. just search "Allahu Akbar" on youtube and you will actually understand.

Jaffa wrote:In this case; I also want the words "jesus" and "christ" not used as they can be used in a wrong way and are offensive to me. See how stupid that sounds? Censoring words that might offend a few people for whatever reason is never a good idea, unless you want a dry and boring server where people are scared to say anything at all in case they offend someone.


Then use it in a positive manner, I am sure jarl wouldn't mind then

"Jesus Christ, what have I done.." / "Jeez, what have I done..."
"Allah The Great, what have I done..." / "Allah, what have i done..."

I have yet to see someone use christianity in form of something negative in the server.

Krpadja wrote:how far would it go?


This is how far it should go (read up above). All that is asked for, stop using it in a negative way.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Meowcy » 16 Jul 2017, 15:55

Posted for Jeffrey Baker wrote:I think this whole situation has been escalated further than it should have been. I agree with what Spencer is saying and it is not even an insult, its just the way that Jarl had perceived it since his is muslim and chose to be offended by it. Also when Jarl says "I can decide who is muslim" and lists things that muslims should not do, this is quite an arrogant reply because a muslim can follow certain traditions but not all of them for example I am a Hindu and I choose not to eat meat, doesnt nean that other Hindus that choose to eat meat are not Hindus, they still follow other traditions and follow the religion. At this point it just seems like trying to get him punished for any reason.

But enough on that case, I think there needs ti be more attention on the other rules, the rule 6 i dont feel is broken because its like saying to someone "do you want to RP" in OOC, would that be classed as Metagaming? The same applies here. And the rule 13, possibly a warn since it is a multiple occurence but nothing beyond that, if the first case was never reported then it cannot be considered as a "first case" since he was never punished for the first offence



With Rule 6, as I mentioned before it may be seen as promoting metagaming, not metagaming itself. What Shella did could've been avoided if she would have asked it ICly "Do you guys want to go to casino after MZ?" The worst she would've gotten is just a no, but if people said yes after she asked it OOCly then it may have already constitute to an actual metagaming with players' intention to move their characters to Casino after MZ.

With #13, while Ryosuke is relatively new still at L11 or so, he's still an R2 of a faction, thus with a certain increased level of competence with server commands to avoid /n chat and deeper understanding of server rules especially #13, given we would all tell new players to talk to the faction using /fb during BT.

Shella's responsibility as an Elite would involve immediately pull Ryosuke out of the newbie chat and to remind him of #13, rather than do nothing about it because she misinterpreted #13 as I have previously stated. As I said, educating them all would suffice.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Cassie Henderson » 16 Jul 2017, 23:12

I will talk to Ryosuke about his speech and what is right from wrong, as some words can affect certain people. Shella is aware of this PC and has released that she needs to step up and take action against rule breakages and to not mix OOC with IC.

Further rule breakages from either of the two players will result in heavier punishment. I believe that this situation has been resolved and the PC can now be closed.
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