[Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #F1

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[Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #F1

Postby Jarl Corleone » 15 Jul 2017, 22:15

IC Name: Shella Atreides Shay, Ryosuke Takahashii, Bruce Miller
Rules Broken: Shella Atreides Shay: #6,#F1
Ryosuke Takahashii: #9 #13
Bruce Miller: #13
Description: At 11.07.17 Ryosuke Takashii made a racistic comment about muslims, now, I am a muslim myself and I absolutely hate when people write stuff like that, showing absolute no respect for other people. I must say, a friend of mine did in fact give this to me, he is also a muslim and was offended by this statement. The reason he chose to give this to me is because he wants to be anonymous, so please don't witch hunt and rather try to focus on stopping racism. I also noticed that shella who broke rule #6, being metagaming. Didn't take any action against racism, at all. This can surely not be acceptable that an elite allows racism in their faction? Therefor I think Shella broke #F1 as well. Later that same evening, Bruce Miller and Ryosuke Takashii started having a conversation over newbie chat, which is a rule break of #13.. and guess what, shella didn't take any action.. again? What kind of behaviour is this? Don't take me wrong, I don't think writing in a newbie chat is a crime of any sort.. but allowing racism? This shouldn't be acceptable at all.
Proof: Image Shella asks people that who wants to go to bank in OOC whic is metagaming.
Image Ryosuke makes racist comment about muslims, and Shella allows him to do, doesn't take an action.
Image Bruce and Ryosuke talking in newbie chat which is against #13 and Shella doesn't take an action again.
Steam ID: Bruce Miller: STEAM_0:1:29514847, others will be added.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby krpajda » 15 Jul 2017, 23:16

I don't want to make a judgement on this, instead, i would pose a question:
Should it be wrong to say things that offend someone but are fine to others, if the person who would get offended is not present?
I know you said your friend was there, so just to be safe, an alternative question:
Should it be wrong to make fun of a major world religion? Maybe a joke about priests diddling kids would be too edgy, but what if you just said God's name in vain in english rather than arabic? would that somehow make it better than this?
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 00:10

krpajda wrote:I don't want to make a judgement on this, instead, i would pose a question:
Should it be wrong to say things that offend someone but are fine to others, if the person who would get offended is not present?
I know you said your friend was there, so just to be safe, an alternative question:
Should it be wrong to make fun of a major world religion? Maybe a joke about priests diddling kids would be too edgy, but what if you just said God's name in vain in english rather than arabic? would that somehow make it better than this?


The problem here isn't thats Arabic or not, the problem is making an offensive joke about Islam. "imma practice Allahu akbar again" , you know what this means. If not, the terrorists who call theirselves Muslims (which isn't) making attacks like suicide bombing, cutting other people's head etc. They shout "Allahu akbar". The problem here is they aren't Muslims and giving bad impressions to world. The name of the God doesn't matters, but making a joke about that terrorist shouting sentence is a real problem. I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Cassie Henderson » 16 Jul 2017, 00:15

Basically want Krp said, sums it up. Little things can insult different people. A lot of people insult New Zealand by saying "Sheep Shaggers" - each country/religion gets insulted by something and its just how the world works. But you're right, its bad to say and can make people feel bad about themselves. Ryosuke is still a relatively new player to the server and is only just getting used to everything. When I next see him, I will have a word to him about what is right from wrong - hopefully these comments or use of Newbie Chat doesn't happen again.

As for Shella - a lot of people like to go 'hang out' at the Casino OOCly. Everyone does it - not everyone likes to roleplay 24/7 and it is nice to just go chill at Casino with some friends and win some money.

This can surely not be acceptable that an elite allows racism in their faction?


As for that comment, this is all I have to say;

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby ACuteKittenP » 16 Jul 2017, 00:33

I'm not sure why you felt the need to include Bruce in this PC with bigger matters at hand but as bruce makes 1 comment that isnt a question in Newbie channel I feel there is no need to punish him but only give him a reminder of rule #13 and advise him to be more careful with his used of newbie channel.

Regarding Shella not punishing for the racist remark thats not metagaming its simply rule 9 and F1.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby ACuteKittenP » 16 Jul 2017, 00:46

Without coming off as Islamophobic myself I'm failing to see any context where the Muslim faith has been insulted other than the repeated phrase "Allahu Akbar" Which just means God is great. without further context I dont see any reason for someone to be warned for rule #9 hence canceling out rule #F1 aswell
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 00:55

ACuteKittenP wrote:Without coming off as Islamophobic myself I'm failing to see any context where the Muslim faith has been insulted other than the repeated phrase "Allahu Akbar" Which just means God is great. without further context I dont see any reason for someone to be warned for rule #9 hence canceling out rule #F1 aswell



Have you read what I wrote. Let me quote.
I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby ACuteKittenP » 16 Jul 2017, 00:58

Jarl Corleone wrote:
ACuteKittenP wrote:Without coming off as Islamophobic myself I'm failing to see any context where the Muslim faith has been insulted other than the repeated phrase "Allahu Akbar" Which just means God is great. without further context I dont see any reason for someone to be warned for rule #9 hence canceling out rule #F1 aswell



Have you read what I wrote. Let me quote.
I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.



Both of those examples with their literal translations make no sense anyway, Are you sure you're not just reading too far into the lines?
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 01:03

ACuteKittenP wrote:
Jarl Corleone wrote:
ACuteKittenP wrote:Without coming off as Islamophobic myself I'm failing to see any context where the Muslim faith has been insulted other than the repeated phrase "Allahu Akbar" Which just means God is great. without further context I dont see any reason for someone to be warned for rule #9 hence canceling out rule #F1 aswell



Have you read what I wrote. Let me quote.
I am not saying "Allahu akbar" is a terrorist sentence, I am saying if you use those words in a sentence like this "imma practice Allahu akbar again" or " I always go in as Allahu akbar" this is wrong.



Both of those examples with their literal translations make no sense anyway, Are you sure you're not just reading too far into the lines?

I am pretty sure that everyone knows, why people use "Allahu akbar" and what kind of joke is that.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby krpajda » 16 Jul 2017, 01:06

Yeah, people use it to make fun of morons of the past, who thought that if they kill themselves in a fashion more spectacular than the moron before them, they will somehow be even more alive than they were to begin with. The whole idea is completely ridiculous which makes it an easy punchline to a joke.
If the morons were not muslims, but they get associated with muslims (even tho they shouldnt be), and you get offended becuase you are a muslim and they were used as a punchline, you are associating them with muslims, despite saying yourself that you want to avoid that.
None of this makes sense.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby ACuteKittenP » 16 Jul 2017, 01:10

I am pretty sure that everyone knows, why people use "Allahu akbar" and what kind of joke is that.


Regardless the basis shows that the comments are unrelated to any evidence provided. Unfortunately you can't have words censored because it might offend people when others such as myself see nothing wrong with it as its entirely unrelated to the faith at all. If this is reason enough to PC people then I'm going to PC everyone who says "Oh my God" because it offends Christians that the lords name is being used in vain
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 01:11

krpajda wrote:Yeah, people use it to make fun of morons of the past, who thought that if they kill themselves in a fashion more spectacular than the moron before them, they will somehow be even more alive than they were to begin with. The whole idea is completely ridiculous which makes it an easy punchline to a joke.
If the morons were not muslims, but they get associated with muslims (even tho they shouldnt be), and you get offended becuase you are a muslim and they were used as a punchline, you are associating them with muslims, despite saying yourself that you want to avoid that.
None of this makes sense.

I am not associating them with Muslims, I am just saying that world is getting it wrong and they think those terrorists are Muslims, this is exactly what I am saying.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jaffa » 16 Jul 2017, 01:29

So you're using this PC to spread a message of yours? Not sure that's the right purpose for a PC.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 01:46

krpajda wrote:Yeah, people use it to make fun of morons of the past, who thought that if they kill themselves in a fashion more spectacular than the moron before them, they will somehow be even more alive than they were to begin with. The whole idea is completely ridiculous which makes it an easy punchline to a joke.
If the morons were not muslims, but they get associated with muslims (even tho they shouldnt be), and you get offended becuase you are a muslim and they were used as a punchline, you are associating them with muslims, despite saying yourself that you want to avoid that.
None of this makes sense.

Also that sentence can not be used like that, "Imma practice Allahu Akbar", Allahu Akbar doesn't means any action, I mean you can't practice on it, its not an action. When they mean an action it makes an offensive joke/insult.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jarl Corleone » 16 Jul 2017, 01:53

Posting on Jason's behalf.
Jason Wolfy Shinobi wrote:Lets start about "allahu akbar". If you translate that its "the allah is big" but that sentence was 2 sides the peaceful on and aggressive side that ISIS claimed for the suicide bombing they do and many islam's are against of that side . As you saw guys ryosuke wrote "i am go in as ALLAHU AKBAR" he used the aggressive side of it when it means an action.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby ACuteKittenP » 16 Jul 2017, 02:15

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With the context of the sentences it makes no sense. whether it be a debate of morality or if its ethical to make such remarks it simply was not aimed to offend anyone or upset anyone.

Nothing good can come of this PC and it boils down to a personal opinion on a person by person basis.

Bruce will not be punished for his one non question or answer comment in newbie chat but reminded for rule #13 and asked to be considerate in the future.

The rest of this PC is based too far on personal opinion for a conclusion that seems fair to all parties.

I recommend this PC be closed and Keeri issue those who he feels have breached the rules to either state where and how they have broken the rules and perhaps expand upon the topics that may be too taboo to be discussed under RLS rules and recommend a suitable punishment.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Jaffa » 16 Jul 2017, 02:16

We all know Muslims aren't terrorists, so then why are you, a Muslim, offended by the use of "Allahu Ackbar", an insult towards terrorists? It seems to me like you are just choosing to be offended at this point.
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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Meowcy » 16 Jul 2017, 09:46

I think this PC emphasised too much on the #9 element. With that being said, all I will comment on that topic is perhaps giving a talk (not warning) about making a joke about sensitive things such as politics, religion, race, gender, sexual preferences etc should be avoided where possible, or just be somewhat more considerate around others should suffice.

With regards to #13, I can see it's a minor rule break about it, that even experienced players would sometimes make such mistakes let alone the less experienced, so a verbal warning should suffice.

With the #F1 with Shella, perhaps she needs to be talked to about how to interpret Rule #13. While Rule #13 did not explicitly define what kinds of questions may be asked on /n chat, it should be common sense that newbie chat should be used for questions and answers about server functions and things along those lines, rather than general chatter such as "u guyz r leaking like anything..." or "xD".

Finally with #6, while it is customary that players tend to hang out OOCly at the Casino, asking or inviting players to the Casino via OOC means or generally, using OOC chat to invite players to execute an IC action with their character may be seen as promoting metagaming, so I disagree with Cassie's defence.

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby Isabella Wolfy » 16 Jul 2017, 10:02

ACuteKittenP wrote:Bruce will not be punished for his one non question or answer comment in newbie chat but reminded for rule #13 and asked to be considerate in the future.


Not his first time, as shown in screenshot below.. regardless if one sentence, he did in fact break #13 there. I know Bruce is a good guy and he would surely learn from a simple verbal warn, as he has a history of being a quick learner and a nice person overall.

Image

Also, cassie, not the first time stuff like that has been photoshopped.. wether it has been RLS or Discord. I can show you later what I mean on discord as it is not relevant to this topic. I also have to mention that i am a person who love cultures, and have a few indian friends myself who are really great guys.. some might would of said I had some tied bond with Nody, who is also an indian, and I have been from everything to America, Africa, Asia and live in Europe. I also think the fact that you use a photoshopped picture is simply a bad excuse to get away from the main point of the thread, however.. let's get back to the main point of the thread.

I just don't get how hard it is to stop using sentences which others feel offended about? All Jarl asks here at most is that people stop using it, it is not only him who has been offended as clearly stated in the main describtion. In fact, I don't think I have seen one player, in one game, who has used the words "Allahu Akbar" in a sense of praying in game, but rather use it as an insult. Yes, terrorist use it, muslims use it too, so what? Muslims to do not accept that terrorist use their religion as an excuse to war, muslims doesn't want their context to be used in anything negative as it clearly is an issue in todays world.

You guys might think "we use it because terrorists use it and my character associates as a terrorist", but then again, those terrorist do in fact use islam as an excuse and put it in a bad light, last time I checked, god wasn't a terrorist group, but a religion's person.

Also Krp, do you really think he said "Allahu Akbar" for the pure reason of saying "God is Great"? When he clearly says he will "practice" it or "I always go in as", this is the most poor excuse I have seen.

Just because "Every country/religion has a way to be insulted" doesn't mean it has to be insulted.

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How can someone win some money at the casino OOCly, when all the actions to win money are ICly :scratch:

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Re: [Roaches/Ular Boys]Ryosuke, Shella, Bruce -#6 #9, #13, #

Postby krpajda » 16 Jul 2017, 11:36

Jarl Corleone wrote:Also that sentence can not be used like that, "Imma practice Allahu Akbar", Allahu Akbar doesn't means any action, I mean you can't practice on it, its not an action. When they mean an action it makes an offensive joke/insult.

A sentence can be used in whatever way you want to use it. It is not a special holy statement that no one is allowed to touch or misuse. It's just a pair of words. A string of characters.
It's a completely obvious metaphor for terrorism. Hell, as the newbie chat screen shows, what they meant by it was bringing way too many explosives (3 rocket launchers) to a mission.

It's a funny terrorist joke, not an offensive Muslim joke, until you make it into one. Once again, i think making fun of a major religion is perfectly fine, but even if you do not, this is not it.
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