[IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

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[IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Patepostimies » 28 Sep 2018, 21:22

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Inquiry into the effective leadership of the Enforcers.

This is Major Walter Pate Postimies adressing the President and Vice President of Panau. As of late the Enforcers have had a growing discontent towards the top leadership of our organization. This is a direct result from General Logan Oneill's inability to adress his shortcomings as our leader even after he has been consulted about it by multiple parties. His negligence towards his own subordinates have resulted in multiple key individuals dispersing from our ranks. Even after all these events he refuses to acknowledge any of these anomalies, especially them having anything to do with himself. His actions have been extremely harmful to the intergrity of Enforcers and his continuing attitude to deny any of these issues' existences proves that he has indeed lost his way as a leader of the entire Enforcers. This is why we are requesting his immediate transfer away from duties as an Enforcer General.
________

The following people recently in employment in Enforcers and under the rulership of General Logan Oneill consent to the contents of this document and would backup the claims presented here. The following people swear to uphold the truth and the truth only in court.

Signed by: Walter Pate Postimies



(( I understand that translating recent events into IC is a bit controversial but having attempted to talk some sense has resulted in much of nothing. I and many others feel that there is no choice but to draw more attention to these issues, that seem to have no solution in sight. ))

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Eagle » 28 Sep 2018, 21:26

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(( As Pate said, our attempts to talk about this ended with no result, and I also feel that there must be something done. ))


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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Drew Mendoza » 28 Sep 2018, 21:30

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Nair0 » 28 Sep 2018, 21:32

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Logywoo2 » 28 Sep 2018, 21:43

(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))
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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Eagle » 28 Sep 2018, 21:50

Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))


(( I recommend that you read what Pate wrote properly. This post is based on IC, and it is meant to be IC. Recent OOC issues that we're having is an extra fuel to the problem. The worst thing is that you are aware of it, and you are willing to take down the entire faction, rather than just stepping down yourself. ))


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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Drew Mendoza » 28 Sep 2018, 21:52

Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))

(( Actually you can't say to your General ''We don't like your leading'' or something in any militaristic (this includes police, at least in my country, I don't think you can do in any country though.) organization. So I think making a report to even General's superior is makes more sense.))

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Patepostimies » 28 Sep 2018, 21:54

Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))


(( I am simply giving an IC excuse to talk about this since clearly there is some causality between people leaving the Enforcers and what you are doing. Wilder things have been explained in IC, such as this. I personally did not ask this of you but the fact you take my feedback as simply complaints further proves my point that you just want to dismiss anything related to your disrespectful actions as a community leader. You asked for criticism but refuse to receive it. ))

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Logywoo2 » 28 Sep 2018, 21:55

Drew Mendoza wrote:
Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))

(( Actually you can't say to your General ''We don't like your leading'' or something in any militaristic (this includes police, at least in my country, I don't think you can do in any country though.) organization. So I think making a report to even General's superior is makes more sense.))

(( Well you don't have to say ICly "We don't like your leading" but you could say it in a better way by bringing up the fact that people have ended their military contract rather than just going straight to superiors but I mean do whatever, if Keeri says I have to step down then so be it, i'll appoint Alice as Supreme and let things run its course from there. ))
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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Pie Eater » 28 Sep 2018, 22:00

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Paul Wilkinson » 28 Sep 2018, 22:04

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(( Sorry mate, you're a really cool guy and I really appreciate the fun times we had but it's gone way too far now and I can't support your leadership anymore. I think it would have been much easier if you stepped down a month ago.. ))


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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Nicole Mendoza » 28 Sep 2018, 22:05

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Skyworth » 28 Sep 2018, 22:07

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby ACuteKittenP » 28 Sep 2018, 22:07

Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))


(( Without being too intrusive, the IC problems arent the main concern. The IC reasons are the IC justification to want you to step down. I've heard from 4 - 5 of your faction members that the main reasons are mostly OOC.

Its never nice telling someone you think they shouldnt continue to be in a position anymore but your faction members clearly think this is a necessary change.

You're not an unreasonable person you've proved that, but even if the IC reason arent what you would consider good enough to be demoted for perhaps you could take the time to consider the OOC reasons and potentially be a reasonable person stepping down on your own terms. ))


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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Logywoo2 » 28 Sep 2018, 22:12

ACuteKittenP wrote:
Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))


(( Without being too intrusive, the IC problems arent the main concern. The IC reasons are the IC justification to want you to step down. I've heard from 4 - 5 of your faction members that the main reasons are mostly OOC.

Its never nice telling someone you think they shouldnt continue to be in a position anymore but your faction members clearly think this is a necessary change.

You're not an unreasonable person you've proved that, but even if the IC reason arent what you would consider good enough to be demoted for perhaps you could take the time to consider the OOC reasons and potentially be a reasonable person stepping down on your own terms. ))

(( The thing is we discussed this about 11 hours ago and they didn't give me any time to make any changes at all. I was given 11 hours, 7 of which I was still at college for. If they gave me time to actually do something it might work out but i'm not gonna step down as soon as I get tagged in my own discord server saying "We lost x amount of players so considering stepping down from supreme position". I completely understand what you're saying Glynn but this is unreasonable on another level, they're just demanding a change in leadership ICly for the OOC reasons that they have. They are essentially metagaming which is why I refuse to step down right now and is why I am having this debate. ))
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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Pie Eater » 28 Sep 2018, 22:17

(( you are refusing to change anything, let alone give decent comments on the stuff we say to you in the enforcer discord. You've been given your chances, which were multiple by multiple people, and all you say is that nothing is going to change unless Keeri forces you to step down. So we are trying to make that happen. You basically deny everyone left in your faction, because you refuse to even give up that "supreme" position. This is all on you. ))
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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Drew Mendoza » 28 Sep 2018, 22:21

Logywoo2 wrote:
ACuteKittenP wrote:
Logywoo2 wrote:(( You can't really just make some IC demand to remove a General and say you've spoken to me ICly when you haven't. The only one to do that was Thorin and he just explained his leaving. All you did was complain OOCly and just tag me in Enforcer Discord and say "Step down from Supreme position". You can't turn that into IC since nothing was done on your end ICly, that is a clear reason why i've not done anything because I don't want to metagame anything and break the rules. ))


(( Without being too intrusive, the IC problems arent the main concern. The IC reasons are the IC justification to want you to step down. I've heard from 4 - 5 of your faction members that the main reasons are mostly OOC.

Its never nice telling someone you think they shouldnt continue to be in a position anymore but your faction members clearly think this is a necessary change.

You're not an unreasonable person you've proved that, but even if the IC reason arent what you would consider good enough to be demoted for perhaps you could take the time to consider the OOC reasons and potentially be a reasonable person stepping down on your own terms. ))

(( The thing is we discussed this about 11 hours ago and they didn't give me any time to make any changes at all. I was given 11 hours, 7 of which I was still at college for. If they gave me time to actually do something it might work out but i'm not gonna step down as soon as I get tagged in my own discord server saying "We lost x amount of players so considering stepping down from supreme position". I completely understand what you're saying Glynn but this is unreasonable on another level, they're just demanding a change in leadership ICly for the OOC reasons that they have. They are essentially metagaming which is why I refuse to step down right now and is why I am having this debate. ))


((By the way, you said “I dont want any changes, the people who want to change is everyone else.” That is shows your mind clearly.))

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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Logywoo2 » 28 Sep 2018, 22:22

Pie Eater wrote:(( you are refusing to change anything, let alone give decent comments on the stuff we say to you in the enforcer discord. You've been given your chances, which were multiple by multiple people, and all you say is that nothing is going to change unless Keeri forces you to step down. So we are trying to make that happen. You basically deny everyone left in your faction, because you refuse to even give up that "supreme" position. This is all on you. ))

(( My chance was given within a space of 11 hours, 4 of which I was only able to use to actually try something but I do have something called a life and so RLS was not a priority for today due to coursework needing completion. You say you've given me chances but you've not actually allowed time for it and i'm surprised this has come from you Pieter considering you hardly play when I do and so you don't see what I actually do, you just believe the information fed to you by others. If you'd have actually given more time for me to make something happen then maybe this drama wouldn't have happened. ))
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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby ACuteKittenP » 28 Sep 2018, 22:23

Logywoo2 wrote:(( The thing is we discussed this about 11 hours ago and they didn't give me any time to make any changes at all. I was given 11 hours, 7 of which I was still at college for. If they gave me time to actually do something it might work out but i'm not gonna step down as soon as I get tagged in my own discord server saying "We lost x amount of players so considering stepping down from supreme position". I completely understand what you're saying Glynn but this is unreasonable on another level, they're just demanding a change in leadership ICly for the OOC reasons that they have. They are essentially metagaming which is why I refuse to step down right now and is why I am having this debate. ))


(( Its totally understandable to want to take time (Also it's power gaming not meta gaming which is unimportant) you will earn more respect and appreciation from people if you at least consider their terms. Dont have to out right accept them but to think about them and consider them im sure will be appreciated by all those with concerns.

Giving my own opinion which may be controversial, I don't believe in having "supreme generals, shaman etc" i think a better alternative would be to disband senior R5 positions and to promote a 3rd person to R5 (i think best candidates would be Pate, Lilith and paul if he were to rejoin) and have a 3 R5 leadership to maintain a better balance. This way most people will have at least 1 R5 they like (I hope) who can represent their values and ideals in a majority voting R5 leadership (so 2/3 have to agree on all or at least most Ideas)

Anyway take your time consider all options. All the best <3 ))
Last edited by ACuteKittenP on 28 Sep 2018, 22:24, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: [IC] Issue #B897 - Discontent in ENF leadership

Postby Bryce Hart » 28 Sep 2018, 22:23

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